Netko je jednom rekao – dobar proizvod je dobar proizvod, ma koliko mi šutjeli o tome. Jedan takav proizvod je emisija “Transfer” posvećena kulturi, i to nekoj drugačijoj kulturi, blago pomaknutoj od običnog i začinjenoj pravom dozom kritičke misli. Razgovaramo s Gordanom Brzović, redateljicom i urednicom, ali prije svega energičnom osobom, punom ideja i rijetke sposobnosti da te ideje i realizira. Urednica Transfera odala nam je da je njena, u regiji jedinstvena emisija, zapela i za poneko oko izvan Hrvatske pa je cijeli autorski tim uz brojne pohvale nedavno dobio i ponudu za suradnju iz Berlina.

Livingstone: Kako ste počeli s Transferom, što vas je inspiriralo?
Gordana Brzović: Mislim da smo svi mi koji smo se upustili u tu avanturu pomalo inficirani kultnom emisijom "Petkom u 22" koju je nekad uređivala Dunja Blažević, a na kojoj smo odrasli. Kultura je tamo bila predstavljena sasvim drugačije nego što se to igdje drugdje moglo vidjeti. Neki od nas kasnije su surađivali i s Martinisom na njegovoj emisiji “Radar”, ili je barem redovito pratili. Uz to, svi smo se na ovaj ili onaj način bavili kulturom i onda jednostavno u jednom trenutku shvatili da bi bila jako dobra ideja napraviti svoju emisiju i tako utjecati na scenu. Naravno, upustili smo se u to s entuzijazmom i snažnim uvjerenjem da će ono što napravimo biti još bolje, inovativnije i progresivnije od svojih prethodnica. Mnogo ljudi je od početka sudjelovalo na tom projektu te doista ne znam koga bih izdvojila. No bilo bi dobro pohvaliti Hrvatsku radioteleviziju jer koliko god se morali nositi s često vrlo teškim produkcijskim uvjetima, ne možemo ne primijetiti da HRT ima tradiciju takvih projekata dugu više od dvadeset godina – “Radar” je trajao deset godina, a “Transfer” je upravo zakoračio u 15. godinu postojanja. Nigdje u regiji ne postoji slična emisija i kad je ljudi iz okolnih zemalja vide, uvijek nam zavide što imamo tako nešto.    

LS: Jedan je dio emisije, takozvani Teorijski filmovi, dobio i vlastiti život u raznim galerijama. O čemu se točno radi?
GB: To je naš autentičan proizvod, a možemo ih opisati kao spoj reklame za "opake" teorije i poticajnih misli za laku noć. Obično uzmemo misao jednog filozofa ili neku teoriju o umjetnosti te složimo od njih neku vrstu audiovizualnog misaonog stimulansa ili zaključka. Nekad se radi o obliku komentara nekog društvenog događanja, ili izjavi o umjetnosti i situaciji na suvremenoj sceni. Vjerujem da je to izuzetno zanimljiva forma - kratka i brza, a i atraktivna, no uvijek je neki "okidač" za razmišljanje u gledateljevoj glavi. Počeli smo ih raditi Dejan Kršić i ja krajem 90-ih, tada pod imenom “Bastard & Transfer Movie Production”. Kad je Kršić postao previše zaposlen oko svojih projekata, uskočile su djevojke iz udruge “Kontejner”, Sunčica Ostojić i Olga Majcen s kojima smo nastavili u istom duhu, a surađujući i s dizajnerom Dejanom Dragosavcem Rutom, pod novim nazivom “Kontejner & Transfer Movie Production”. Važno je shvatiti da su to ideje na kojima radimo da se zabavimo, a stvar na kraju završi u galeriji. Izabrali smo nekoliko tih teorijskih filmova i poslali na nekoliko izložaba, među ostalima i na 40. zagrebački salon gdje su prihvaćeni kao umjetničko djelo i postali dio izložbe. Mi smo tako kasnije došli snimiti izložbu na kojoj smo i sami bili izložak. Svih 35 filmova predstavili smo prošlo ljeto i kod Darka Fritza koji vodi galeriju "Siva zona" na Korčuli. Upravo su Teorijski filmovi najčešća tema brojnih upita iz inozemstva i prijedloga za suradnju, a završili su i u nekolicini knjiga o teoriji medija.

LS: Koji vas je životni put doveo do ovoga što sad radite, čime ste se sve bavili?
GB: Nekad davno svirala sam harfu i vjerovala da ću se time baviti čitav život. U međuvremenu sam shvatila da harfom neću uspjeti zadovoljiti sve svoje interese i znatiželju, pa sam završila montažu na Akademiji dramskih umjetnosti. Ipak, od početka je i to otišlo u drugom smjeru. Osamdesetih sam tako sa skupinom Nova Europa, u kojoj smo bili dizajner Dejan Kršić, fotograf Jani Štravs i ja, izlagala na likovnim izložbama. Bilo je to iznimno dinamično doba, radili smo videoradove i povremeno surađivali s kolektivom Neue Slowenische Kunst. Ja sam još radila i spotove, a na Salonu mladih u Zagrebu i Beogradu režirala sam i modnu reviju. Jednom sam bila i selektorica festivala videa Unica. Zapravo sam na različite načine surađivala s mnogo ljudi na raznim projektima. Sve u svemu, bilo je prilično zabavno. S Transferom sam započela istraživanje televizijskog medija i otkrila da uživam na razne načine isprobavati televizijsku formu. No kultura mi je uvijek bila primarna. Uglavnom sam režirala dokumentarce o umjetnosti, a uz to sam radila i druge vrste televizijskih emisija. Dosta sam surađivala s Antom Batinovićem na glazbenim emisijama, kao i raznim drugim emisijama o kulturi, ali i onima zabavno-glazbene tematike.

LS: Kao redateljica dokumentarnih filmova snimili ste poduži niz dokumentaraca o  umjetnicima. Možete li malo o tim filmovima i o aktualnim projektima?
GB: Pa dosad sam snimila 15-ak filmova o umjetničkim osobnostima raznih profila, među njima o Grupi šestorice autora, Borisu Cvjetanoviću, Braci Dimitrijeviću, Juliju Kniferu, Aleksandru Srnecu, Vladimiru Dodigu Trokutu, Ivanu Ladislavu Galeti i drugima. Među aktualnim projektima je onaj o Ateljeu Kožarić – koji donosi cijelu priču o ateljeu naše živuće kiparske legende, Ivana Kožarića, kojeg je Grad Zagreb otkupio od umjetnika pa će se cijeli naći u stalnom postavu Muzeja suvremene umjetnosti. To je projekt koji mi je vrlo drag zbog svoje specifičnosti, znate, Ivan Kožarić je umjetnik koji baš ne voli pričati o svojim radovima tako da vam, kad ga nešto pitate o nekom radu obično odgovori u stilu: “Da, pa valjda sam to dobro napravio, ne znam.” Tako smo umjesto klasičnog dokumentarca u kojem umjetnik lamentira o svojim radovima odlučili snimati umjetnika u raznim situacijama, a naročito njegovu svakodnevicu i rad. Da bismo postigli da ga možemo snimiti u prirodnom okružju, morali smo toliko dugo boraviti s njim da se na nas potpuno navikne, da mu kamera i snimatelj postanu kao dio namještaja. Rezultat je dosta odličnog materijala. Uz to završavam i filmove o Vladi Marteku i Vasku Lipovcu, a s fotografom Mijom Vesovićem radim i na jednom izuzetno zanimljivom projektu o našoj kultnoj postavangardnoj skupini Gorgona. Vesović i ja smo to zamislili tako da animiramo sudionike skupine i tog vremena da pričaju o Gorgoni dok ih mi oboje snimamo, svatko sa svojom kamerom. No, kad sve zajedno završi, svatko će dobiti cijeli materijal i napraviti vlastitu verziju koje ćemo onda spojiti u neku vrstu dokumentarnog Rašomona - spoj dva različita pogleda i pristupa istoj stvari. Iako momentalno uopće ne postoje sredstva za ovu produkciju, to nas nipošto neće spriječiti. To je jednostavno moj način rada - ne znamo kako ćemo to riješiti, ali sigurno je da hoćemo. Veseli me to i nestrpljenjem iščekujem rezultat.

LS: Ima li neka poveznica u svemu što ste radili?
GB: Nevidljiva nit jamačno postoji. Zanimaju me stvari, ljudi i pojave koji u sebi sadrže neki moment koji odudara, stimulira i navodi na razmišljanje, kao sve ono što u sebi objedinjuje neke suprotne i na prvi pogled nespojive osobine.  Recimo, umjetnik Vlado Martek koji je primarno pjesnik i čija je glavna tema etika pa kaže - "svako uzimanje olovke u ruku je čin poštenja" - želeći se uvijek preispitati prije nego što se počne baviti umjetnošću. On je filozof i pjesnička duša koja teži utopijskim idealima, a kako je i sam istodobno svjestan koliko su oni uzaludni te da neće uspjeti promijeniti svijet, prelazi iz pjesnika u anarhista pa ide u akcije agitacije i piše grafite. Onda stvar završi tako da ga spopadne zgranuti policajac kojem nikako nije jasno kako se jedan profesor književnosti može spustiti tako nisko da se bavi vandalizmom. Te niti prisutne su u svemu što radim, i kad radim primjerice film o Vasku Lipovcu koji je znatno drugačija, ali opet zanimljiva pojava. Njegov pristup u kojem simplificira i svodi ljude na elementarne ovalne oblike, uspijevajući s dvije točke koje predstavljaju oči dočarati cijeli spektar višeslojnih emocija na svoj mi je način poseban. Kada pogledamo njegove likove, iz njih zrači neka zaboravljena sreća iz prošlih vremena, nešto što mi je užasno blisko i ljudsko te puno nekih simpatičnih mana. Radila sam i film o Rabuzinu što se vjerojatno doima najčudnije jer naizgled nema nikakve veze s onim što inače radim. Ali moment u kojem jedan takav, naizgled jednostavan čovjek odluči da je cvijet važniji od kuće i čitavog pejzaža pa onda nacrta cvijet najveći na slici - proporcionalno visok par stotina metara - odaje da je riječ o osobi koja u sebi krije nešto zanimljivo, vrijedno otkrivanja.

LS: Što vas zanima u budućnosti - čime se planirate baviti i čime biste se možda htjeli baviti, ali vam neke okolnosti ne dopuštaju?
GB: Za većinu okolnosti znam se pobrinuti, no vrijeme je priličan izazov. Iako su mi duge forme uvijek predstavljale izazov, u budućnosti se ne mislim baviti isključivo dokumentarcima. Kad snimate takav film, često je vrlo teško dočekati kraj. Od trenutka kada započnem s nekom idejom koja me provocira i uzbuđuje, pa dok je realiziram zna proći i do dvije-tri godine. Dotad sam u tko zna kojem "filmu" i to zna frustrirati. U jednu ruku “Transfer" s dvotjednim ritmom djelomično zadovoljava potrebu za brzim rezultatima, no u posljednje vrijeme počinju me intenzivno zanimati i neke kraće forme. "Napadaju" me neke takve ideje, a na nekima već i radim. Ta nova faza i mogućnost da nešto što me zainteresira brzo ostvarim i tako testiram ideje prije nego im "ishlapi" aktualnost izuzetno me veseli. Dakako, nisam baš jednodimenzionalna osoba pa me uz posao zanima još štošta. Recimo, bicikli, ili dizajn interijera – doduše, prije svega vlastitog. Kad mi se pruži prilika, volim i ljenčariti, a zabavljaju me i teorije zavjere te naročito moj novi aparat Lumix GH1 koji trenutačno proučavam. Ma ima tu još koješta, no to je već neka druga priča.

Somebody once said – a good product is a good product, whatever we might say about it. One such product is the show “Transfer” dedicated to culture, a different kind of culture, slightly off-center from the ordinary and spiced up with the right dose of critical consideration. We talked with Gordana Brzović, a director and an editor, who is above all else an energetic person, full of ideas and with a rare ability to realize these ideas. The editor of “Transfer” revealed that her show, unique in the region, caught the attention of a few people outside Croatia, so the whole authorial team, besides being given much praise, has recently received an offer for cooperation from Berlin.

Livingstone: How did you start with “Transfer”? What inspired you?
Gordana Brzović: I think that all of us who got involved in this adventure were slightly affected by the cult show “Petkom u 22” (Friday at 22), which was edited by Dunja Blažević, and which we all grew up on. It represented culture in an entirely different way than any of us could see anywhere. Later on, some of us cooperated with Martinis on his show “Radar”, or at least we followed it closely. In addition to this, we all have dealt with culture in one way or another, and then simply at one moment, we realized that it would be a very good idea to make our own show and thus influence the scene. Of course, we did it with much enthusiasm, strongly believing that the show we made would be much better, more innovative and more progressive than its predecessors. Since its very beginning, a lot of people have participated in the project, so I really cannot single anybody out. But I should commend Croatian Radiotelevision, because as much as we had to deal with often very difficult production conditions, we cannot ignore the fact that HRT has a tradition of more than 20 years – “Radar” was broadcasted for ten years, and “Transfer” has just entered into its 15th year of existence. There is no other similar show in the region and when people from surrounding countries see it, they always envy us for it.

LS: A part of the show, the so-called Theory Films, has got a life of its own in various galleries. What exactly is this about?
GB: This is our authentic product, which can be described as a blend of advertising of “mean” theories and stimulating thoughts for a good night’s sleep. We usually take a thought by one philosopher or some theory on art and compile some sort of audiovisual contemplative stimulus or conclusion. Sometimes it takes the form of a commentary on some social event, or a statement about art and the situation on the modern scene. I believe it to be a very interesting form – short and quick, but also attractive, but there is always a “trigger” for reflection in the viewer’s mind. Dejan Kršić and I started making them at the end of the 1990s, at the time under the title “Bastard & Transfer Movie Production”. When Kršić became too busy with his projects, the girls from the association “Kontejner”, Sunčica Ostojić and Olga Majcen, stepped in, with whom we continue to cooperate in the same spirit, and at the same time we cooperate with the designer Dejan Dragosavec Ruta, under the new name of “Kontejner & Transfer Movie Production”. It is important to understand that these are ideas that we work on in order to have fun, and then they end up in a gallery. We chose a few of the Theory Films and we sent them to several exhibitions, amongst others to the 40th Zagreb Salon where they were received as a work of art and became a part of the exhibition. Later on, we came to shoot an exhibition in which we ourselves were the exhibit. We also presented all 35 films last summer at Darko Fritz’s who is the head of the gallery “Siva Zona” on the island of Korčula. It is precisely the Theory Films which are the most frequent cause for enquiries and suggestions for cooperation from abroad, and they have also ended up in a few books on the theory of the media.

LS: How did get to do what you are doing now? What did you used to do?
GB: I used to play the harp and I believed that I would do that for the rest of my life. In the meantime, I realized that the harp was not going to satisfy all my interests and curiosity, so I graduated in editing at the Academy of Dramatic Art. Still, at the beginning it all went in an entirely different direction. In the 1980s I exhibited with the group Nova Europa, which also included the designer Dejan Kršić and the photographer Jani Štravs, at art exhibitions. It was an extremely dynamic era, we did video-pieces and occasionally we cooperated with the collective Neue Slowenische Kunst. I also did music videos and directed fashion shows at the Salon of the Young in Zagreb and Beograd. Once I was even the selector of the Unica festival of video. Actually, I cooperated in different ways with many people on various projects. All in all, it was quite entertaining. With “Transfer” I started to explore television media and I discovered that I enjoyed trying out the television form in different ways. However, culture has always taken first place for me. I have mostly directed documentaries about art, and besides that, I have also done other kinds of television shows. I have cooperated a lot with Ante Batinović on music shows, as well as on various other shows about culture, including entertaining musical ones.

LS: As a director of documentaries, you have made a long series of documentaries on artists. Can you tell us a bit more about these films and current projects?
GB: Well, up until now, I have made about 15 films on the artistic abilities of various figures, among others about the Group of Six Authors, Boris Cvjetanović, Braco Dimitrijević, Julije Knifer, Aleksandar Srnec, Vladimir Dodig Trokuu, Ivan Ladislav Galeta and others. Among the current projects, there is one about the Kožarić Atelier, which gives the whole story about the atelier of our living sculpture-making legend, Ivan Kožarić. The City of Zagreb bought it from the artist, so the entire atelier will become a part of the permanent exhibition of the Museum of Contemporary Art. This is a project that is very dear to me because of its unique quality, you know, Ivan Kožarić is an artist who does not really like to talk about his work, so when you ask him about one of his works he usually says something like: “Yes, well, I guess I did a good job, I do not know.” So, instead of it being a classic documentary in which the artists laments about his works, we decided to shoot the artist in various situations, especially his everyday life and work. In order to be able to shoot him in his natural environment, we had to stay with him long enough so that he got used to us, and until the camera and the cameraman became like a piece of furniture to him. The result was quite a lot of fantastic material. As well as this, I am about to finish films about Vlado Martek and Vasko Lipovac, and I am working on an extremely interesting project with the photographer Mijo Vesović, about our cult post-avantgarde group Gorgona. Vesović and I plan to animate the participants of the group and spend the time talking about Gorgona, while we both shoot them, each with their own camera. When everything is over, we will both have the same material but each will make their own version, which will then be blended in some kind of a documentary Rashomon – a combination of two different views and approaches to the same thing. Although at the moment there is no financial means for this production, this will not hold us back at all. This is just how I do things – we do not know how we are going to solve this, but we know we will. I am looking forward to it and I am impatient to see the result.

LS: Is there any connection between everything that you have done?
GB: There is certainly some invisible thread. I am interested in things, people and phenomena that contain something that stands out, stimulates and makes you think, just like anything that unites some opposites and characteristics that seem irreconcilable at first glance. For example, the artist Vlado Martek, who is primarily a poet and whose main subject is ethics, says: “every picking up of a pencil is an act of honesty”, always wants to question himself before he starts doing art. He is a philosopher and a poetic soul, who aims for utopian ideals, and as he is, at the same time, aware of their futility and of his inability to change the world, he turns from a poet into an anarchist and starts to agitate and write graffiti. Then the whole thing ends by being seized by a shocked policeman who cannot see how a teacher of literature can stoop so low to vandalism. Those threads are present in everything I do, even when I, for example, do a film on Vasko Lipovac, who is significantly different, but still an interesting person. His approach where he simplifies and reduces people to elementary oval shapes, and manages to evoke a whole spectrum of multi-layered emotions with two dots as eyes, is special to me in his own way. When we take a look at his characters, they radiate with some kind of forgotten content from the past, something terribly close to me and human and full of likeable flaws. I have also worked on a film about Rabuzin, which may appear to be a very strange thing to do, because at first glance it is very different from what I usually do. But the moment one such seemingly simple man decides that the flower is more important than a house and an entire landscape, and then paints the flower as the biggest in the painting – a few hundred meters high in proportion – this reveals that this is a person who has something interesting inside, something worth discovering.

LS: What interests you in the future – what do you plan to do? What would you like to do? Do any circumstances prevent this?
GB: I can take care of most of the circumstances, but time is a pretty big challenge. Although long forms have always presented a challenge to me, I am not only going to do documentaries in the future. When you shoot such a film, it is often hard to see the end of it. There may be two or three years from the moment I start with an idea which provokes and excites me, until I complete it. Up until then who knows where I am, and that can be frustrating. In a way, “Transfer” with its fortnightly rhythm partially satisfies my need for fast results, but lately I have become extremely interested in some shorter forms. I get an “attack” of ideas, some of which are already being realized. This new phase and the possibility to achieve something quickly interests me and to be able test the ideas before their topicality “fizzles out”, makes me extremely happy. Of course, I am not a one-dimensional person, and I am interested in a lot of things besides my work. For example, bicycles, or interior design – my own, to be fair. When I get the chance, I like to lounge about, and I find conspiracy theories quite entertaining, as well as my new Lumix GH1 camera which I am studying at the moment. There are quite a lot of other things, but that is another story.